Every now and then, I wonder what the payout to the Kirby’s was. I’ve heard a marginally reliable eight figures, which is likely at any point more than Lee got. The funny thing about the payout to the Kirby’s is that even low eight figures seems like a lot yet given that Disney paid $4b for Marvel, what’s eight figures more? As for who deserves more, Lee or Kirby, it’s pure apples and oranges.
And that’s because a huge factor in the mess is whether Kirby was creating characters without any request from a publisher, producer or whatever. The only things that come close to mind is the Silver Spider (actually a four man creation) and something called Tiger 21 IIRC, which maybe at a producer’s request. So essentially everything — certainly at Marvel — was created at Marvel’s request or maybe even in collaboration with Lee.
Which gets to maybe legal hairsplitting.
Based on researching and drafting a post-trial memorandum of law on the very issue of work for hire, WFH has nothing to do with whether the creator was an employee but whether they were treated as as employee directed to do the work and the like. (My case involved an independent contractor who because of fraud or just bullshit had to create software after wrongly assuring that there was off the shelf software available. Very much not an employee nor were there any such claims.
Now, if the judge said otherwise, well, all I’d add is that they look like they got a lot of the facts wrong in the section you quoted re the various characters.
I doubt we'll ever know what the exact figure was, or if it included ongoing royalties. Remember though, Lee got $10,000,000 as a one-off payment to settle his suit, so, if I were the Kirby's, I'd be starting there and going north as Marvel went south.
The biggest problem with the Kirby case was Kirby signed that bloody agreement in 1972 which stated he did it all as an employee for hire. For the court that was it - closed case. For everyone else, well, it's not as simple as that.
That Smilin' Stan got that $10m payout's news to me.
I could be tripping but I tend to think the payout to the Kirbys was around $20m.
And unlike, say, the creation of the Fantastic Four or any of Kirby's other creations at Marvel (with a few exceptions) where what happened is lost to history, the payout is documented in sealed court records and likely with NDAs. The answer's out there.
And I know it's legal hairsplitting but WFH doesn't involve whether the creator is an employee but whether they're treated like an employee and whether the relationship was like an employer/employee. Please note both "likes" there.
And back to the Lee payout and holes in the historical record: My recollection is that for at least a period of time, Stan was contractually required -- or paid -- to lie about how the characters were created and to push a line that beefed up the idea that the creating was like a corporate act. IIRC, this was well after WFH became a legal thing.
Every now and then, I wonder what the payout to the Kirby’s was. I’ve heard a marginally reliable eight figures, which is likely at any point more than Lee got. The funny thing about the payout to the Kirby’s is that even low eight figures seems like a lot yet given that Disney paid $4b for Marvel, what’s eight figures more? As for who deserves more, Lee or Kirby, it’s pure apples and oranges.
And that’s because a huge factor in the mess is whether Kirby was creating characters without any request from a publisher, producer or whatever. The only things that come close to mind is the Silver Spider (actually a four man creation) and something called Tiger 21 IIRC, which maybe at a producer’s request. So essentially everything — certainly at Marvel — was created at Marvel’s request or maybe even in collaboration with Lee.
Which gets to maybe legal hairsplitting.
Based on researching and drafting a post-trial memorandum of law on the very issue of work for hire, WFH has nothing to do with whether the creator was an employee but whether they were treated as as employee directed to do the work and the like. (My case involved an independent contractor who because of fraud or just bullshit had to create software after wrongly assuring that there was off the shelf software available. Very much not an employee nor were there any such claims.
Now, if the judge said otherwise, well, all I’d add is that they look like they got a lot of the facts wrong in the section you quoted re the various characters.
I doubt we'll ever know what the exact figure was, or if it included ongoing royalties. Remember though, Lee got $10,000,000 as a one-off payment to settle his suit, so, if I were the Kirby's, I'd be starting there and going north as Marvel went south.
The biggest problem with the Kirby case was Kirby signed that bloody agreement in 1972 which stated he did it all as an employee for hire. For the court that was it - closed case. For everyone else, well, it's not as simple as that.
That Smilin' Stan got that $10m payout's news to me.
I could be tripping but I tend to think the payout to the Kirbys was around $20m.
And unlike, say, the creation of the Fantastic Four or any of Kirby's other creations at Marvel (with a few exceptions) where what happened is lost to history, the payout is documented in sealed court records and likely with NDAs. The answer's out there.
And I know it's legal hairsplitting but WFH doesn't involve whether the creator is an employee but whether they're treated like an employee and whether the relationship was like an employer/employee. Please note both "likes" there.
And back to the Lee payout and holes in the historical record: My recollection is that for at least a period of time, Stan was contractually required -- or paid -- to lie about how the characters were created and to push a line that beefed up the idea that the creating was like a corporate act. IIRC, this was well after WFH became a legal thing.